As someone who goes to France often to visit my nieces (and not just to Paris), I found YM’s comments really on the mark. (Though the ordinary restaurants in my glauque 15th A are pretty good!). What was missing was any discussion of the immigration issue and especially the Islamists. French Anger, yes—French anger over this situation is the origin of the expanding electoral power of Marine LePen. This month is actually the 10th anniversary of the slaughter of cartoonists at Charlie Hebdo. My nieces could easily have been at the Bataclan—they went there all tbe time—the tenth anniversary of that massacre is this year too, in November.
Thanks! And that’s a fair point — hoping to write a separate essay on that topic soon. (Charlie Hebdo, including the ignominious response to it among Brooklyn literati, was very formative to me in coming to recognize the moral blindness of a big part of the left.)
There are so many great points here. My own are that the food is rarely great, but buying food for cooking at home is terrific. Many service workers are not actually French and prefer to speak English. I have met a lot of Ukrainian waiters, waitresses, and taxi drivers lately. French public broadcasts have always been far better than American ones. There is a great little book on this by Tamara Chaplin called Turning on the Mind. France Culture’s Le cours de l’histoire, among many others, keeps the tradition alive. Finally, there are way too many English words now.
The observation that hit me the most was « Unlike their American counterparts, for example, French elites still believe in something » I think about this almost every day lately. I can’t take one more essay about « what the Democrats should do to regain power. » I find myself wanting to scream « just believe in something and articulate it! » The parties, in general, only represent a means to acquire power for individual strivers. There is nothing there otherwise. At least the French still offer meaningful and interesting debate.
As a Latin American migrant living in Paris for the last 20 years, I have to say your analysis rings true on many levels. Great and fair insight. However, things in France are changing (unfortunately, if you ask me), and globalization is pushing hard to iron out our differences. I work with many young French people (in their 20s), and while the previous generation was weary of Americanization (which is what globalization is), the young 'uns totally embrace bullshit American brands and products (like Starbucks), speak poorer French, full of anglicisms and are more permeable to the "I make my money, fuck the slackers" kind of discourse.
I guess what I'm saying is, France is declining rapidly too, but when you have a bigger head start and a conservative society weary of change, it takes more time for you to come crashing down.
"they have found a more cosmopolitan way to express their hauteur: when tourists try out their poor French, acquired by watching Emily in Paris and doing some quick lessons on Duolingo, they immediately switch to English."
This was my experience on a visit to Montreal two decades ago. I don't know what accounts for the difference—if my experience was atypical, or if Canada was on a different timetable, or if Canadians dealt with Americans (as I was, presumably obviously) differently than other Canadians (from Canadians that's the explanation I've heard), or something else.
I continue to sense in discussions with French friends that they are perhaps not perfect but still much better than Americans at separating ideas from the individual expressing them. This, I always assumed, is part of the living legacy of the Enlightenment, bottled in the concept of laïcité and distributed through the schools.
I would be careful generalizing observations primarily made in Paris, especially the nice parts of Paris, to the country as a whole. It’s the same mistake coastal elites in the US make. Small towns, rural communities, industrial regions, etc - all those places that make France and the US into nations, not just their premier cities - are suffering and they feel ignored and discarded.
Yes. And many of the benefits of the bigger towns, like excellent public transport, don’t help you much if you live in a depopulating village far away from the next city. I sort of hinted at that with my reference to the yellow vests but agree I could have written more about it.
I have a natural aversion toward French culture but have visited a dozen times in the last decade, both Paris and the regions. I grew to quite like it.
France is the inversion of Galbraith’s “private opulence and public squalor”. Public services are universal, good quality, and either cheap or free. Private enterprise is frustrated by high taxes and state indifference, particularly toward small-scale business.
So despite the French grumbling, it’s a quite nice place to live. Native French rarely emigrate, and a lot of the francophone world would like to live there.
Eurail pass travelling in Europe in the late 70’s/early ’80s the Parisians were levels beyond any other group in offering disdain and outrage at the use of the English language. The bad French I offered did cause pity in a few hardened hearts and I received information in extremely annoyed French accented English. (Of course it helped that I tried Swedish first.) I don’t have nearly the picture of Europe I once did - I have been away from Sweden a long time, but I was starting to see difficulty to access medical care and other loss of social resources. Swedes have had a good work/life balance, but medicine and tech seem to be expanding in cost to use all available resources no matter how one budgets. It looks like a spiral from where I am, and it seems like societies are in a globally connected feedback loop where all but the wealthy struggle regardless of GDP. I would like to see capitalism be self-correcting whenever wealth becomes too concentrated. Globally, to be honest. I suspect it is systemically infeasible so the heavier hand of revolution and death will drive revolutionary change instead of a world-wide ”soft landing.”
You should have titled your observations as "about Paris". France is made up of many regions, and Paris "reigns" over them with more or less success. Want to have good food? Go to Lyon. Want to hear French as it is spoken? Go to Marseilles, or Nice, or any of the heavily accented French regional "Patois" which are regularly mocked by the Parisians. I know: I am Belgian and I have occasionally spoken English to some rude Parisiens to avoid being mocked for saying "septante" rather than dix-sept. As to Paris, it was never the "Nombril du monde" it claimed to be.
If the waiters seemed haughty, I have found that the customers are. I have spent many months in France over many year, am always polite to any worker, and they have always been polite back. Sure, it's anecdotal, but it is from thousands of interactions. I can count on one hand the time what anyone was anything close to haughty or rude. That said, If they perceive a person to be rude, they will be rude right back. They are a polite culture but have no tolerance for rude people. I suggest, Yascha, that you might wish to change your approach and will find a whole new Paris to enjoy!
"If you were to plot all Western radio and television shows on a chart measuring audience size on one axis and depth of content on the other, nine of the ten furthest into the top right quadrant would be French".
Could you please name some of those nine? My French is not great but I'd like to give them a try, if I can find them.
In his third point, the writer mentions "the puzzle of France’s disproportionate rage". Whereas many European countries made political compromises with working class parties, France ever since the revolution has failed to do so. The result is a resolutely violent state. I once saw an old woman shot with a blank at short range during a yellow vests demonstration; and even mild academic demos are terrorised by the CRS. You should see the number of their buses lined up whenever there is a major march or gathering. And they only employ bulky goons in riot gear. This lack of social compromise between government and the people leads to a popular culture of 'manifestation', taking to the streets or public service strikes at the drop of a hat.
The current political impasse is the result of de Gaulle's Fifth Republic's constitution which grants the President absolute powers unheard of in any other western country. Thus Macron can ignore the results of an election that he unnecessarily provoked when they went against him, and keeps appointing unviable right-wing austerity governments that came at the bottom of the polls when public support for reflation is huge. You have to live there to understand why politics in France is so unruly.
As someone who goes to France often to visit my nieces (and not just to Paris), I found YM’s comments really on the mark. (Though the ordinary restaurants in my glauque 15th A are pretty good!). What was missing was any discussion of the immigration issue and especially the Islamists. French Anger, yes—French anger over this situation is the origin of the expanding electoral power of Marine LePen. This month is actually the 10th anniversary of the slaughter of cartoonists at Charlie Hebdo. My nieces could easily have been at the Bataclan—they went there all tbe time—the tenth anniversary of that massacre is this year too, in November.
Thanks! And that’s a fair point — hoping to write a separate essay on that topic soon. (Charlie Hebdo, including the ignominious response to it among Brooklyn literati, was very formative to me in coming to recognize the moral blindness of a big part of the left.)
There are so many great points here. My own are that the food is rarely great, but buying food for cooking at home is terrific. Many service workers are not actually French and prefer to speak English. I have met a lot of Ukrainian waiters, waitresses, and taxi drivers lately. French public broadcasts have always been far better than American ones. There is a great little book on this by Tamara Chaplin called Turning on the Mind. France Culture’s Le cours de l’histoire, among many others, keeps the tradition alive. Finally, there are way too many English words now.
The observation that hit me the most was « Unlike their American counterparts, for example, French elites still believe in something » I think about this almost every day lately. I can’t take one more essay about « what the Democrats should do to regain power. » I find myself wanting to scream « just believe in something and articulate it! » The parties, in general, only represent a means to acquire power for individual strivers. There is nothing there otherwise. At least the French still offer meaningful and interesting debate.
Thank you! And great observations of your own!
As a Latin American migrant living in Paris for the last 20 years, I have to say your analysis rings true on many levels. Great and fair insight. However, things in France are changing (unfortunately, if you ask me), and globalization is pushing hard to iron out our differences. I work with many young French people (in their 20s), and while the previous generation was weary of Americanization (which is what globalization is), the young 'uns totally embrace bullshit American brands and products (like Starbucks), speak poorer French, full of anglicisms and are more permeable to the "I make my money, fuck the slackers" kind of discourse.
I guess what I'm saying is, France is declining rapidly too, but when you have a bigger head start and a conservative society weary of change, it takes more time for you to come crashing down.
I sometimes wonder how the world would be different if the US had decided to speak French rather than English.
Charles De Gaulle lived an illusion....Donald Trump tries to create an illusion
"they have found a more cosmopolitan way to express their hauteur: when tourists try out their poor French, acquired by watching Emily in Paris and doing some quick lessons on Duolingo, they immediately switch to English."
This was my experience on a visit to Montreal two decades ago. I don't know what accounts for the difference—if my experience was atypical, or if Canada was on a different timetable, or if Canadians dealt with Americans (as I was, presumably obviously) differently than other Canadians (from Canadians that's the explanation I've heard), or something else.
Interesting!
Tu as fait mouche! Bravo!
I continue to sense in discussions with French friends that they are perhaps not perfect but still much better than Americans at separating ideas from the individual expressing them. This, I always assumed, is part of the living legacy of the Enlightenment, bottled in the concept of laïcité and distributed through the schools.
Merci bien, Leon! (And I didn’t actually know that expression, so clearly have much left to learn.)
I would be careful generalizing observations primarily made in Paris, especially the nice parts of Paris, to the country as a whole. It’s the same mistake coastal elites in the US make. Small towns, rural communities, industrial regions, etc - all those places that make France and the US into nations, not just their premier cities - are suffering and they feel ignored and discarded.
Yes. And many of the benefits of the bigger towns, like excellent public transport, don’t help you much if you live in a depopulating village far away from the next city. I sort of hinted at that with my reference to the yellow vests but agree I could have written more about it.
What is it like to be a Jew in France today?
I was wondering that myself.
I have a natural aversion toward French culture but have visited a dozen times in the last decade, both Paris and the regions. I grew to quite like it.
France is the inversion of Galbraith’s “private opulence and public squalor”. Public services are universal, good quality, and either cheap or free. Private enterprise is frustrated by high taxes and state indifference, particularly toward small-scale business.
So despite the French grumbling, it’s a quite nice place to live. Native French rarely emigrate, and a lot of the francophone world would like to live there.
Lucid except for remark 11
Eurail pass travelling in Europe in the late 70’s/early ’80s the Parisians were levels beyond any other group in offering disdain and outrage at the use of the English language. The bad French I offered did cause pity in a few hardened hearts and I received information in extremely annoyed French accented English. (Of course it helped that I tried Swedish first.) I don’t have nearly the picture of Europe I once did - I have been away from Sweden a long time, but I was starting to see difficulty to access medical care and other loss of social resources. Swedes have had a good work/life balance, but medicine and tech seem to be expanding in cost to use all available resources no matter how one budgets. It looks like a spiral from where I am, and it seems like societies are in a globally connected feedback loop where all but the wealthy struggle regardless of GDP. I would like to see capitalism be self-correcting whenever wealth becomes too concentrated. Globally, to be honest. I suspect it is systemically infeasible so the heavier hand of revolution and death will drive revolutionary change instead of a world-wide ”soft landing.”
You should have titled your observations as "about Paris". France is made up of many regions, and Paris "reigns" over them with more or less success. Want to have good food? Go to Lyon. Want to hear French as it is spoken? Go to Marseilles, or Nice, or any of the heavily accented French regional "Patois" which are regularly mocked by the Parisians. I know: I am Belgian and I have occasionally spoken English to some rude Parisiens to avoid being mocked for saying "septante" rather than dix-sept. As to Paris, it was never the "Nombril du monde" it claimed to be.
If the waiters seemed haughty, I have found that the customers are. I have spent many months in France over many year, am always polite to any worker, and they have always been polite back. Sure, it's anecdotal, but it is from thousands of interactions. I can count on one hand the time what anyone was anything close to haughty or rude. That said, If they perceive a person to be rude, they will be rude right back. They are a polite culture but have no tolerance for rude people. I suggest, Yascha, that you might wish to change your approach and will find a whole new Paris to enjoy!
"If you were to plot all Western radio and television shows on a chart measuring audience size on one axis and depth of content on the other, nine of the ten furthest into the top right quadrant would be French".
Could you please name some of those nine? My French is not great but I'd like to give them a try, if I can find them.
In his third point, the writer mentions "the puzzle of France’s disproportionate rage". Whereas many European countries made political compromises with working class parties, France ever since the revolution has failed to do so. The result is a resolutely violent state. I once saw an old woman shot with a blank at short range during a yellow vests demonstration; and even mild academic demos are terrorised by the CRS. You should see the number of their buses lined up whenever there is a major march or gathering. And they only employ bulky goons in riot gear. This lack of social compromise between government and the people leads to a popular culture of 'manifestation', taking to the streets or public service strikes at the drop of a hat.
The current political impasse is the result of de Gaulle's Fifth Republic's constitution which grants the President absolute powers unheard of in any other western country. Thus Macron can ignore the results of an election that he unnecessarily provoked when they went against him, and keeps appointing unviable right-wing austerity governments that came at the bottom of the polls when public support for reflation is huge. You have to live there to understand why politics in France is so unruly.